Talk:Lla Dafern

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Bengwenid! Bieńwięty! Moyn moyn! Bemmeinde! Pemmenut! Benvenuto! Welcome! This is Lla Dafern, or, as the Saxon invaders call it, The Pub. It is one of many places where the members of Ill Bethisad enjoy meeting each other informally. It is the place where opinions can be exchanged and questions can be asked concerning Ill Bethisad in general or about topics that do not fit in the Talk compartment of individual wiki pages. It is also the place where technical questions can be asked to the moderators of this wiki. THE MENU: Our chef, whose nationality for reasons of security will remain undisclosed, offers you a broad assortiment of Helvetian and other specialties, such as Montreiano Sea Elephant steaks with rended blubber, or if you prefer a side of Pacific white sided dolphin babyback ribs. He will be more than happy to give you a demonstration of his culinary talents. Just keep your health insurance card ready! And if you aren't particularly hungry today, he will also happily treat you on a rosy-scented Jervan Muscatel, a cool Dumnonian cider, a warm Irish or a cold Batavian beer, or, if you are amongst the more daring, a true Venedic jekwiała. For those who appreciate fine wines we carry the rich red wines of Bordeaux and les Ozarques, Brandy or Montignac, and bin ruper from Hostreht in Xliponia. For the discerning, a good 1984 vintage Arvorec anaf aval is recommended as an apéritif. Especially for minors and teetotallers we also serve Coke, orange juice, goat milk, Italian Limonata, and Neofrancian Spruce beer. If you prefer a more active pursuit to accompany your imbibition, there's a rousing game of puir-man whummlin going on out back. There's even an occasional pickup match of hibercrosse. Cheerio! WARNING: Please don't pay attention to the smoke, the noise and the mess. Watch your steps and don't break your neck over cables, books, broken chairs, empty beer cans, leftovers of cigarettes and snacks...our bus boys get to it when they can... DISCLAIMERS: The management is not responsible for physical or mental damage inflicted upon our guests, especially when it is caused by the food, by the BioCola, by the regular rioting here, or by any other kind of misbehaviour on anyone's part. Any similarity to what the Wikipedians call The Village Pump is not entirely coincidental. NOTA BENE: You can sign your messages by typing ~~~ for just your name and ~~~~ for your name + timestamp.

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Contents 1 Elections in IB 2 Montenegro 3 Maps 4 Oh, that's right! 5 Homepage down? 6 *Here's* and *there's* lists of images 7 Languages

Elections in IB

Any major elections coming up *there*? More specifically in the NAL-SLC... Seth 04:52, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I think 2010 are the next big elections in the NAL. Elemtilas 21:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

They had a General Election in 2006, which means the next one should be in 2010, at the end of Gore's term as GM. There might be all kinds of Provincial elections going on between now and then, though. Was there something specific you're looking for? Zahir 01:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I think you mean 2000? That was the last general election in the NAL. Or do you mean some other elections? Elemtilas 03:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

No, there was a general election for Parliament in 2006. It wasn't supposed to be, just some seats coming up, but Gore persuaded the Cabinet to authorize a general election which they technically could do. His hope was to win a more solid majority and a mandate for his universal health care plan. But the new Covenant Loyalist Party was formed from splinter groups of both the Whigs and the Progressive Conservatives, and they won enough seats that Gore was obliged to form a coalition government with them. There was indeed a general election in 2000, that also coincided with the election (by Parliament) of the General Moderator. Another such election is scheduled for 2010, but unless something drastic happens there's no reason to suppose one will occur prior that. Zahir 06:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Ouisconsin's next legislative election is in 2009, and its next gubernatorial election in 2010. Benkarnell 12:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Ter Mair's next gubernatorial election is also 2009, the lord governors having five year terms. I don't know when the next legislative election will be. And by the way Dr. Zahir, I do now recall the universal health care business -- but would such an unusual election be termed "general"? Or is it a general election cos he made a big fuss about it? ;))) The way things are headed in IB's America, anything could happen between now and 2010! Elemtilas 17:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

It was a "General Election" because virtually the entire Parliament faced the polls. And while in theory almost anything could happen, methinks it would take something really...strange...to force another general election so soon. By-elections are something else, though. Those happen all the time, because seats become vacant for one reason or another, or because of some clause in each province's charter (methods of choosing Senators are up to each province). Zahir 18:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm interested in Pennsylvaania, What with Gen. Tomos Busbe gunning for a Parliamentary seat... Seth 05:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

On the other hand, in Russia we should probably start to think about the possibility of new presidential election (perhaps Kuskov might go up to presidency) or re-election of Igor Arensky. Arensky is being president since 1999 and surely in the new more or less democratic Russia *there* elections are still made.--Pedromoderno 13:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Montenegro

I just noticed, we have no article for Montenegro. Misterxeight 15:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

That's OK. Someday, someone might come along to fill in some blanks. We don't write articles for places simply because there's no article! Elemtilas 21:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

According to the maps, Montenegro would seem to be just a part of Dalmatia. Benkarnell 12:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok just testing my new found HTML skills thanks to Padraic. Will perhaps open a new article soon :) Geof 13:00 9 September 2008 (AEST)

Would you guys mind if I got Montenegro? Misterxeight 20:55, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Put it this way...I don't know that there's a problem per se with taking up a territory you're interested in, but at the same time, I want to mention that when I came I spent the better part of a year fashioning Louisianne to my ideas, enriching it, contributing and working with others before I branched out into other nations. I'd hate for you to get interested in Montenegro as well and end up having two half-developed countries. For that matter, if you wanted to work on Montenegro, since its territory falls in with Dalmatia, you'll want to make sure that you coordinate heavily with Frank/Ferko as his ideas for Dalmatia have been stewing and brewing for a good number of years.

After all, the goal here is not to flesh out for fleshing out sake. The goal really is to build a beautiful collaborative tapestry, and I'd hate to see you spend your efforts broadly, when you've already made such an interesting start with Greece. BoArthur 21:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Could it being part of Dalmatia be a fluke? I mean a lot of pages mention Montenegro, the Ottoman Empire's page even mention it's independence. The only reason I would want it is to make it be annexed by Greece through a puppet king swearing servitude to the laurel leaf crown. Misterxeight 21:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

To steal a quote: "No Montenegro for you!" We're well aware of your ideas for an aggrandised Greece, and have been aware of this since about the first day you posted to Conculture. Frankly, it's getting rather old. To steal another quote: "You can wrap an old fish in paper..." Take Dan's advice while you can and stick with Greece. You still have a lot of work to do preparing some kind of proposal for discussion. Haven't seen much of that yet. Other issues need work as well. Elemtilas 03:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Am I getting banned now? Misterxeight 21:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

We'll discuss this offline. Elemtilas 03:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I see no reason why you would be banned, unless you are trying to "get banned". I gently and firmly remind you, Misterxeight of the principle of Quod Scripsi Scripsi (maybe you should re-read it). We can't just throw aside something that has been accepted as long as Montenegro's connection with Dalmatia, even if it is a fluke. Because this is part of Frank's Dalmatia, you're going to have to talk with him at length about this and have his permission for such a change before we can consider it, and it will take a general proposal to the group. Ill Bethisad is not a role playing game. It's not a game of Risk. This is not about "who gets the most wins."

I appreciate your interest in building Greece up, but the way you're moving with Greece is very brusque, and frankly makes me question your motives here somewhat. Before we can accept this idea, you're going to have to work with Frank and make a joint proposal to the group for approval. BoArthur 22:06, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

No one's banning anyone, and Montenegro's not a fluke. It's part of Dalmatia's well thought out history. Check out Dalmatia#History. Montenegro's mentioned several times: part of medieval Dalmatia, independent state at some point, part of the Ottoman Empire, independent in the 1880s, annexed to Dalmatia after GW1. It says, "Montenegro no longer exists, it is once again part of Dalmatia as it was before the Turks entered Europe. Montenegro was basically an artificial state created to give an Austrian ally south of Dalmatian Hercegovina." Benkarnell 22:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

As Ben has pointed out there is history, just not under the title Montenegro. If you REALLY want to see things move that way, you're going to have to talk with Ferko/Frank who has the prior claim to the area, and with whom you will have to collaborate before making any such change. QSS, pure and simple. BoArthur 22:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I know I have to read everything to make sure stuff like this happens again, thanks guys :) Just a question though, do we have a section of long, well-thought history on every nation somewhere in the wiki? Misterxeight 22:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I only knew about Dalmatia because I had just read it the other day (while putting Istria together). Benkarnell 23:51, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

No, we don't...histories are contained here in part, but there are other websites where it's contained, as well as in the history of the Conculture Web Group. You may want to send Ferko a private e-mail to make sure that you find everything he's "published" on Dalmatia's history. BoArthur 22:23, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Like Geo-Cities? Anyway I have another question. How long did it take you for Louisianne to become a fairly well developed nation? What did you do to have it turn out that way? Misterxeight 22:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I did what you hve done and will do with Greece--learned the Ill Bethisad history of the place...and added my ideas to the mix, much like you've done with Greece currently. I've thought about their culture, the influences that would have been different *there* and *here*, not just history, but cultural. How would the return of the Hagia Sophia change the Orthodox church? etc. And with Greece, and the changes in IB from essentially roman times forward makes a very fertile playground to develop history in.BoArthur 22:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking. I don't really like that Greece if 4 or 5th Rome, I want it to be like the 2nd Greek empire. The only thing I want to maintain of Byzantium/East Rome is just the architectural influences & religion.

Misterxeight 22:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, modern Greece isn't anything Rome. The only connexion it has with Rome is the new king's pretention to the Byzantine / Roman throne. If you want it to be the Hellenic Empire discussed months ago, king Constantine should repudiate any claims to his ancestor's imperial title, then ensure that his titles align with this Greek ideal. That would allay any trepidation the Kemrese and British in general might feel regarding his actions in that regard. Previous Greek kings have not had this problem!Elemtilas 03:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

To be fair though, it's more than one king: it is an entire political movement of which he is the front man. Since his biography and antics have gotten more attention of late, I think the fast-growing Imperialist movement gets ignored. It's not just one young man with pretensions; it's a whole side of the Greek national conversation. Benkarnell 04:14, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I never really made C out to want to be too much of a Roman based ruler, if I did, that's the opposite of what I mean. His official title is "His Highness, Emperor o the Greeks". Let Italy be Rome, this sleeply little peninsula does not have identity isuues. The only I'm keeping is the flag, which is just based of an old design of Rome. But of course we can always make a new one if you guys think everyone will get confused. Misterxeight 23:36, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

This of course means Constantine is Constantine I now. Plus I;m having trouble with the years of regained Constantinople. Misterxeight 23:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to change his numeral. Even if it technically gives the wrong impression, that is precisely the kind of error that makes things feel "real." And if the foreign press get the wrong end of the stick, well that is hardly unusual is it? Look how many people think the USA is a country of cowboys, that the British are all cockneys and tea-sipping, buck-teethed tweed-wearers, or that all Arabs are ignorant and violent. Zahir 18:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Maps

How has everyone gone about making their maps?

Would love to make some new ones of the HRE, but my computer skills letme down again :( Anyone got any ideas? Geof 9th September 2008 @ 13:10 (AEST)

Jan van Steenbergen may have his originals... BoArthur 18:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, Geof, I've used MSPaint and Photoshop both. Both work, both give decent results. BoArthur 22:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Ben made a blank political map which you can color. There's also a huge, non IB formatted map which is very detailed at [1] Misterxeight 00:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

For my maps of Turkestan, I started with Jan's original map of the state and adapted heavily. One of the Türkistan Hava Yolları airline route maps was based on an early adaptation of Jan' map; the international route map was adapted from one of the big IB world maps, though I forget which one. (This is me giving all credit where credit is due!) Geoff

Oh, that's right!

I just remembered something: South Florida. I know the Irish are still trying to pressure the RTC into doing as their doing, and may still stick with that proposal map that is on the South Florida page. I just want to know if anyone else wanted to make any remarks or anything... Seth 03:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

You can bet the South Floridians, especially those in the RTC ZOC will have something to say! There will soon be some more news smuggled out of Florida... Elemtilas 03:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Homepage down?

Is anyone else getting a "This page cannot be displayed" message when going to the homepage? Benkarnell 15:55, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Not me. Zahir 18:10, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

In Portugal not also.--Pedromoderno 00:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

*Here's* and *there's* lists of images

Geoff started an article (List of Jet Fighters) on which we can see what jet planes *there* correspond to real world ones. I wonder if couldn't be made the same about images of people in IB whose pictures came out from real world, digitally manipulated or not. I always was curious about to know who really are some of the faces in the pics which appear in the articles.--Pedromoderno 00:32, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Languages

Hi all! What languages do you guys speak? Natural languages and conlangs etc. GeofTurner 16:00 9th Oct 08 (AEDST) *just remembered we're in daylight savings now!*

We don't Daylight Savings until November in the US. We're weird (I know--nothing new). English, French, Swedish with understanding of German, Russian, Arabic and the other Germanic/Romance languages (to a small degree). BoArthur 13:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I speak joual/french, english and a bit of both spanish and farsi. and we had daylight saving last weekend here in australia.--Marc Pasquin 14:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

What exactly is Joual? Geofturner 16:56 13th Oct 08

I speak portuguese, spanish, english, a bit of french and I used to speak a little bit of lingala, but I lost most of practice on this one.--Pedromoderno 14:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm one of the boring ones. Only speak English. Took French in high school and college, remembering almost none of it now. *sigh* Zahir 15:25, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Boring? Hardly. Being the Maven of Culture for IB, I should say you're anything but! BoArthur 17:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I only speak English & Greek :( but I have to learn Spanish Misterxeight 23:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I speak English, Kazakh, what I can still remember of high school German and French, and just enough Russian to look like I ought to know more than I do. Geoff 05:25, 10 Oct 08 (USCT)

I'm rather surprised with some of the languages you guys speak!--Pedromoderno 12:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

If you want conlangs as well, then add Franj and Lauranthea to my list. Neither of these are in IB, and Lauranthea isn't IB-able. Geoff 16:48, 10 Oct 08 (USCT)

English. I practice German when I can but get get by on the Internet given enough time. I'm learning Spanish. Benkarnell 21:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

czech (mother tongue), slovak, english, all fluently; german (both mediocre, speaking and reading), russian (much better at reading than speaking) and spanish (dtto as russian) with much less fluency. those other langs are only reading: all other slavic except for slovenian and bulgarian (only with dictionary) and portuguese. i speak fluently no conlang, except for really broken arkian. Jan II. 11:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Mother tongues: Portuguese and German; fluent: English, Spanish; less fluent: Esperanto, French; read & can make myself understood: Italian, Dutch; can read > 25%: Danish / Norwegian / Swedish (if simple text); can pronounce reasonably: Japanese, Russian. I recently missed a chance of meeting Jan Van Steenbergen in person - presumably in Hamburg - and exchanging a few words in broken Wenedyk (me) and broken Xliponian (him). ;-) Oh well, I'm back in Brasil now (technically that's Paraná *there*). :-( Kyrmse 20:28, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Wow! that's awesome! we should incorporate them all more into IB somehow. althought dont ask me how, cause im ridiculously hungover lol Geofturner 17:00 13th Oct 08 (AEDST)

Well, wouldn't good Xliponian (you) and good Wenedyk (me) have been better? ;) Anyway. Mother tongue: Dutch. Fluent in Polish and English. Fairly good knowledge of German and French. Read (and make myself understood): Russian. Largely passive knowledge: Ukrainian. Also had Latin and (Ancient) Greek in school for six years, but Greek mostly forgotten. Those are the languages I've actually learned. There are numerous other languages that I can understand "by proxy", but just like anybody who knows English can understand Scots, anybody who knows Dutch can understand Afrikaans, anybody who knows Polish can understand Belorussian, etc.etc.etc.

As for conlangs... Well, I have a good working knowledge of my own Wenedyk. I can fairly quickly produce fairly accurate texts in it without ever checking the grammar or the dictionary, but since I never speak it, I don't know if I would easily handle a conversation with my Venedic spokesperson; he happens to be the creator of Polish and that's the language in which we communicate... —IJzeren Jan ^Uszkiełtu? 12:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I am fluent only in my mother tongue of English, but I can read (very basic) German, and I litter my vocabulary with small phrases from Yiddish, German, Russian, Japanese, French, Spanish and Irish Gaelic. Does this mean I can even read most of those languages? No. I just happen to know people who are fluent in them, and some stuff tends to gets passed around. Seth 16:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)